July/August 2017

You Said It

The May/June issue of PE included features on sexual harassment (“Crossing the Line,”) and bias in the engineering workplace, incorporating results from a survey of NSPE members. The articles sparked a robust discussion in the Open Forum of NSPE’s Communities. Here’s what some NSPE members had to say. Comments have been edited for space, style, and clarity.

A Worrisome Workplace: Readers Respond

Unfortunately, I have witnessed bullying in the workplace. Throughout my 35 years of engineering, the most common situation I’ve witnessed is very knowledgeable, often very intelligent, individuals who use their knowledge and intellect to intimidate others, put others down, and are disrespectful or condescending to others. It hasn’t been the type of bullying where someone is afraid for their life or physical harm. Rather, it’s bullying that makes people afraid to share their opinion, afraid of being made to look stupid, fearful of conflict, and, sometimes, fearful of coming to work.

Often, the intimidating or “toxic” behavior is tolerated by leaders because of the individual’s technical skills and what they can do for the organization. The unhealthy behavior is not addressed because management is afraid to lose them. Or, it may be the leaders haven’t learned how to be “direct, but not mean.” When leaders step up and address the unhealthy interactions, it’s amazing how much better the work culture becomes.

Brian Pratt, P.E.
St. Paul, MN

Each individual is certainly entitled to their opinion. With only 24 hours in a day, how would you prefer to spend your time? Seeking solutions and accomplishments in your field of endeavor or continuing to call attention to how difficult or unfair life may be? The great news about this nation is that everyone can make a choice about this every day.

I agree that everyone has bias. Cannot take bias out of the human. Cannot save or educate everyone. Reports on discrimination have been coming out for decades, and they will come out for decades more. They are losing their meaning, no matter who authors them. Moving forward. Some women are voting with their feet to leave engineering. That’s sad, but that’s OK. I can respect their choice; however, I think they quit too soon. I chose to stay and am glad I did. Engineering has been a wonderful career!

Deborah Grubbe, P.E.
Chadds Ford, PA

I am a 69-year-old white male. I have retired a couple of times but love staying in touch with the engineering world. Most of my career was spent in the electric utility business.

I have read the “Worrisome Workplace” articles and the online posts. This all bothers me a lot. Being considerate of our fellow human beings is not a complicated matter. Our ability to communicate and support each other with respect is all that is required.

As I managed people over the years, I used one simple measurement: job performance. When interacting with folks on a day-to-day basis, I tried to follow two simple principles: (1) Do unto others as you would have them do unto to you, and (2) Are my comments/actions something I would want my daughters or wife to experience?

Was I always successful? No, but whenever I recognized the error of my actions I apologized and doubled down on making sure it didn’t happen again.

My compliments for bringing these issues to the forefront. Hopefully it is a wake-up call to the membership and all will reflect on their attitudes as well as their company cultures. Unfortunately, I think this is broader than just our Society’s members. However, it would be wonderful to see professional engineers lead the way to secure a positive workplace experience for everyone. Maybe outside entities we work for and other professional groups will take notice and follow.

William R. (Dick) Coeur, P.E.
Marion, IA

I have not left engineering. Engineering is a wonderful career. I did focus on my career and learning instrumentation, process control, etc. I have done good work. I have a good work ethic. I have not had the level of responsibility of some but I have had responsibility.

I understand bias will never be removed from humanity. But some of us are tired of seeing it exercised in our direction so often. At some point, peace becomes your goal, not battling your peers. One older female engineer, early in my career, told me that to get anywhere, as a woman, you have to be a b****. That’s not in me. It is ridiculous to have to do that for promotion as a woman. People deserve a decent work environment and we all have responsibility to achieve it.

Pamela Quillen, P.E.
Erie, CO

Each of us makes choices. One can speak up without being confrontational or adversarial. One way to do this is to ask questions. If confronted with an environment unfriendly to women, one could ask, “How would you feel if your daughter were the target of what you just said?” The response might be to “lighten up.” But how would you feel if people were constantly commenting on your appearance, race, religion, etc.? Something that is funny once ceases to be funny after a while.

Ultimately, if an organization does not match one’s priorities and values, then perhaps one should start looking for a better fit. In today’s competitive world, we need talented and hard-working people, wherever they come from.

Roch Shipley, P.E., Ph.D.
Naperville, IL

People who speak out about wrongdoing are frequently subjected to retaliation. That needs to change.

J. Marsden DeLapp, P.E.
Santa Fe, NM

I think there is an inherent issue in expectations. Until recently, bullying in the schools was tolerated.

Culturally, the traditional male workplace was very different than it is today. My father told me stories of practical jokes at work on a regular basis. He was an engineer in a factory for his whole career. My dad was (and is) all for women in the workplace if they could handle the job.

Culturally, many guys bully. Women do it too, but men in the workplace have traditionally gotten away with it. Other guys got back at them in the past with practical jokes. Women entered a new culture and then were extremely offended by behavior that had been normal for decades or centuries.

Women often confuse bullying with sexist bullying. I don’t doubt that bullying goes on—but I do feel that only a fraction of what is perceived as sexism actually is. Maybe half, maybe less than half, maybe a lot less than half. Can the difference in discipline in schools (finally not tolerating bullying, for example) change the workplace mentality in a few decades? I hope so. But part of the solution is to teach women that just because a guy is a bully and a jerk doesn’t mean he is sexist, and women need to learn how to handle it too.

One thing about bullies never changes: They don’t pick fights with people who fight back effectively.

Be objective, be aware, see what the overall culture is. Is it really you who is being singled out? And are you being singled out because you are a woman? Or because you are particularly fun to bully?

Debbie Mann, P.E.
West Lafayette, IN

I think the best advice we could give to younger engineers is to be active promoters of their own careers. Be engaging. Be positive. Make yourself indispensable. Don’t give anyone else the power to belittle or intimidate you. Workplace worries are fought one skirmish at a time, and everyone is fighting battles that are only slightly different than your own.

Robert Adams Sr., P.E.
Pasadena, MD

The sexual harassment and bias card is way overblown. It’s more about the hard work and dedication required to be an engineer. Not everyone is cut out for it. Please don’t promote “social justice warrior” views in our trade magazines.

John C. Becker, P.E.
Lynbrook, NY

Don’t miss out on the discussion in NSPE’s online Communities for professional engineers. Engage with your peers on issues of professional importance. Visit https://community.nspe.org.

Join the Conversation

There’s no shortage of ways to connect with the Society as well as other members. NSPE’s Communities, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram all help you make that connection. Or you can write a letter or send an e-mail to the address below.

On this page, we’ll show you some highlights of what people are saying. Keep in mind, however, that the views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of and should not be attributable to the National Society of Professional Engineers.

Share Your PE Experience with NSPE